Friday, February 11, 2011

Anti-Catholic Lies and Deceitful Propaganda: Did Pope St. Pius V Claim to be God? Did a Bishop Say Venerable Pope John Paul II Was God?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R5d60TRTsJE/TVTdUySlp9I/AAAAAAAADQI/jiroYL_5HXo/s1600/PiusVElGreco.jpg
Pope St. Pius V (reigned 1566-1572)
: painting by El Greco

"The Pope and God are the same. So he has all [the] power in Heaven and earth." -- Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay.

[seen on a Facebook page tonight, but obviously gotten from somewhere else off the Internet. "The" in brackets is added from the usual "quotation" used, seen below]

Here are examples of many anti-Catholic sites using the botched citation, without checking it for accuracy (a basic, rudimentary, elementary requirement of all serious research). No one ever links to something that can be checked out online, or finds any semblance of an original source (I found a real source within ten minutes of searching). Instead, we get "Barclay," chapter so-and-so. Huh?:

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".

("Amazing Catholic Statements Regarding the Pope," Let There be Lies, er Light Ministries)

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” — Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous.”

("The Mark of the Beast")

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.

("666, the Pope, Anti-Christ & Vatican – For Dummies!")

[same]

("Who is the AntiChrist: The Beast of Revelation 13")

[same]

("Words of a Beast")

[same]

("Mystery Babylon")

[same]

("The Roman Catholic Church's Shame")

[same]

("Bible Prophecy - False Doctrine")

Etc., etc. ad nauseum . . . See many more by consulting the same Google search that I did.

This is a complete distortion of what was actually written, wickedly spread by anti-Catholic sites. The actual statement comes from Pope St. Pius V's Bull Against [Queen] Elizabeth / Regnans in Excelsis (27 April 1570). It begins:

Pius Bishop, servant of the servants of God, in lasting memory of the matter.

He that reigneth on high, to whom is given all power in heaven and earth, has committed one holy Catholic and apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation, to one alone upon earth, namely to Peter, the first of the apostles, and to Peter's successor, the pope of Rome, to be by him governed in fullness of power.

(from the Tudorhistory.org website; the wording in Papal Encyclicals Online is identical; see also the original Latin version on the latter page)

The phrase is about God, not about the pope:

1) God, the one that reigns on high.

2) "To whom is given all power in heaven and earth" -- obviously referring to Jesus, about Whom this is stated in Scripture.

3) . . . has committed [the Church] . . .

4) " to one alone upon earth, . . . Peter's successor"

It's been quoted radically out of context and with a completely invented addition, by people with an agenda who don't care about accuracy. Another phrase in the Bull also clearly distinguishes between the pope and God:

. . . we (who by God's goodness are called to the aforesaid government of the Church) . . .

Catholics have never believed that the pope is God. That's utterly ridiculous. It is a damnable lie spread by anti-Catholics.

* * *

Another statement made by a bishop about Pope John Paul II is being seized upon as another alleged proof that popes think they are God, and Catholics agree. It was published in Zenit (9-20-04):

Auckland Bishop Says Pope Presides From the Cross

[. . . ]

In a statement in the wake of the New Zealand prelates' five-yearly visit to Rome, Bishop Patrick Dunn of Auckland said of the Pope: "Although his eyes are bright and piercing, he is indubitably frail, and has not walked in public for over a year. His condition makes it an effort for him to talk, and at times even to swallow."

"It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ's cross," said Bishop Dunn, who traveled with seven other prelates to Rome.

He makes a striking statement. But the question is, what exactly does he mean? Is the bishop saying that Pope John Paul II was God (Christ)? No, of course not. Or that he was literally crucified with Jesus Christ, c. 30 AD? No; obviously not. He is using the eminently biblical imagery of "take up your cross":

Matthew 10:38 (RSV) and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.”

Mark 8:34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

St. Paul makes several striking statements along the same lines:

Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.

Romans 8:17
. . . fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

2 Corinthians 1:5-7 For as we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort.

2 Corinthians 4:8-12 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For while we live we are always being given up to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 6:14 But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Galatians 6:17 Henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear on my body the marks [Gk., "stigma"] of Jesus.

Philippians 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

By anti-Catholic "logic" (and a reductio ad absurdum) Paul is clearly claiming to be God, too. After all, he "suffer[s] with" Christ, he says "we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings," and "always carrying in the body the death of Jesus," and he says he has "been crucified with Christ," and " I bear on my body the marks of Jesus," and "becoming like him in his death" and "in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions."

So this proves he is claiming to be God? No, of course not. All Christians are to identify with Christ in His sufferings on our behalf. This is quite biblical. And this is what was meant in the article. Period. End of story.

People need to rely on the Bible and Catholic truths, rather than anti-Catholic lies, coming from a small radical fringe of bigoted, wacko anti-Catholic Protestants.

***

12 comments:

Gregory Mathew Kuglin said...

Hi Dave,

I found your site through the 'stats' section of my blog. Someone had come from your site, directly to my blog. So I checked it out, and found that you linked to my blog (The Roman Catholic Church's Shame) in your post about the Holy Sees self proclamation of divinity.

I did not know that the commonly used quotation of Pius V is inaccurate. Ill take your word on this one, because admittedly I've never read that book by Barclay, not even Chapter XXVII, p. 218.

Your post however did not touch on the other quotations I posted in the same article. These are from other sources, written at different times.

Even if the popes and those involved in the Catholic system never proposed that the pope "is as God on earth," (papa est QUASI DEUS IN TERRA), as Pope Boniface VIII did, there is still abundant evidence from the Holy Bible, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that the papal position is one totally apart from the God of truth, and is an attempt to usurp his glory.

For example, Paragraph 882 of the Catechism:
"The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful. For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered".

Is this not saying that the pope holds the position, power, and influence of Jesus Christ, God on earth? But the Bible says all things, and every name that is named are under the feet of Jesus (Eph 1:17-22). This would include Peter, and every 'successor' after him.

Then paragraphs 890, and 891 of the CCC mention infallibility. Only one was perfect in faith and morals, and that was and is Jesus Christ, who lived without sin. Peter proved he was fallible when he ignorantly tried to persuade Jesus against conquering sin and death; and Jesus rebuked him as Satan (Mt 16:21-23).

Thank you for link to my blog. Further discussion on any Catholic topic is definitely welcomed by me.

Sincerely,

Greg Kuglin

http://andisawabeast.blogspot.com

Dave Armstrong said...

Infallibility had to do with being error-free in proclaiming a doctrine, not impeccable in morals. This is a common mistake, but a very basic one.

The pope represents Jesus on earth. That no more makes him equal to God than being an ambassador of the United States makes a person the same as the United States.

It's just silly.

You seem like a sensible person. Can't you see the logical distinctions here?

Jordanes551 said...

In addition, as for those few times when Catholic theologians have spoken of the pope as "quasi deus in terra," how is that any more objectionable than Psalm 44 (45):7-8, where the Davidic King of Judah, a mere mortal, is addressed with the words, "Thy throne, O God, is forevermore; a sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou dost love justice and hate iniquity: therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee, with oil of gladness above thy fellows"? Or Psalm 81 (82):6, where God addresses human, mortal judges with the words, "I have said: 'You are elohim, and all of you, the sons of the Most High."

If He called them gods to whom the word of God was addressed (and the Scripture cannot be broken), dost thou say of him to whom Christ hath given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and granted unto him royal power as steward of the House of David and servant of the King, "Thou blasphemest," because it has been said of him that he is like God on the earth?

Ben m said...

Dave, Jordanes, See this.

And I'll throw these in just for good measure! ;)
this and this.

Dave Armstrong said...

EXCELLENT, Ben. Those are great "finds." I wanna add them to the end of the paper, as soon as I can. Good work! That's my strategy: refute Protestant anti-Catholics with the Bible and other Protestants: people they themselves admire.

Ben m said...

Dave,

A few more items of possible interest:

Here, and as Cochlaeus relates the same

This, and see page 83 of this book, and page 489 of Weimar ed., v. 11, in Latin. (We need a Latin translator - where's Adomnan when ya need him?) ;)

This, and a slightly different version

This, more context here

another version

Here's the German (Erlangen ed.)

Gregory Mathew Kuglin said...

Jordanes551, I read Psalms that you brought up.

In Psalm 45 there is no mention of king David; it's about Jesus Christ.
God has a throne in heaven, and Jesus is seated on a throne in heaven at his right hand. Jesus is the Messiah, which actually means "Anointed One" (see Ps 45:7)

In Psalm 82 there are a some verses that should give a scale to compare God to these "gods".
- God will judge among the gods (v. 1)
-"They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness" (v 5)
- they "shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." (v 7)

The Lord God is above all gods.


Psalm 86:8
"Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works."

It should not be said by anyone that any pope is "like unto God".

Exodus 15:11
"Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?"

No pope has done the amazing, glorious things written of the LORD in Exodus 15, or come close to any of his works written in the Bible.

Psalm 113:
1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise, O ye servants of the LORD, praise the name of the LORD.

2Blessed be the name of the LORD from this time forth and for evermore.

3From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.

4The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.

5Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,

6Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!

7He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;

8That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people.

9He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD.

Thank you for sharing those verses with me, and keep up your study of the Bible, which is truth. Even though I sometimes only quote portions of Scripture, I highly recommend checking out larger sections surrounding that verse for better context.

Jordanes551 said...

In Psalm 45 there is no mention of king David; it's about Jesus Christ.

All biblical references to King David, and to the Kings of the House of David in Jerusalem, are about Jesus Christ.

Psalm 44 (45) is about the Davidic king, the messiah, the allegorical type of Jesus. In the literal sense, it applies to mere mortals, and allegorically and prophetically to Jesus. But when the priestly choir in Jerusalem sang this psalm, they certainly weren't thinking of Jesus nor of the mystery of the Incarnation, even though we see with the eyes of faith that that's what it is really about.

God has a throne in heaven, and Jesus is seated on a throne in heaven at his right hand. Jesus is the Messiah, which actually means "Anointed One" (see Ps 45:7)

Even unworthy King Saul was the Messiah, the Lord's Anointed One.

The Lord God is above all gods.

Yes, including the "god" known as the Pope.

It should not be said by anyone that any pope is "like unto God".

Why not? Aren't popes human beings, and don't the Scriptures say that human beings are created in the image of God -- that is, we are like unto God?

No pope has done the amazing, glorious things written of the LORD in Exodus 15, or come close to any of his works written in the Bible.

Neither has any other mortal man, nor did the human judges mentioned in Psalm 81 (82) of whom God said, "You are elohim."

Thank you for sharing those verses with me, and keep up your study of the Bible, which is truth.

You're welcome. You do the same.

Even though I sometimes only quote portions of Scripture, I highly recommend checking out larger sections surrounding that verse for better context.

In my decades of Bible study, I've found that's a pretty important rule to follow.

Gregory Mathew Kuglin said...

jordanese551,

Ps 86 is pretty definitive when it says:

"Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works." (v 8)

Again,

"there is none like unto thee, O Lord"

None.
Therefore being in the image of God is not the equivalent to being like unto God. We are all made in the image of God, but there is none like unto the Lord.

And in Acts of the Apostles, one can read of the miracles that mortal man did in the name of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" (Jn 14:12).

If the popes really are the successors to the apostles, and they believe in Jesus as King, then where are their mighty works?

Jim Paton said...

@Gregory

"If the popes really are the successors to the apostles, and they believe in Jesus as King, then where are their mighty works?"

Can you show me the "mighty works" of Timothy or Titus?
These men were the successors of the apostles (according to the Catholic Church) and they are mentioned in the Bible. If you can't show us then we can assume that mighty works are not a qualifier for being a successor. But I'll wait for your reply.

Jordanes551 said...

Ps 86 is pretty definitive when it says: "Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works." (v 8) Again, "there is none like unto thee, O Lord" None.

And yet Psalm 81 (82) is also pretty definitive when it says, "I said, 'You are elohim, and all of you the sons of the Most High."

Since the Scripture cannot be broken, we must conclude that you are misinterpreting Holy Scripture, which undeniably teaches that men can indeed be like God.

Therefore being in the image of God is not the equivalent to being like unto God.

If it's not the equivalent to being like unto God, then you will have to figure out who exactly it is the equivalent of being like unto. If being "in the image AND LIKENESS of God" doesn't mean "like unto God," then what do you suppose it means? "Like unto tree sloths" perhaps?

We are all made in the image of God, but there is none like unto the Lord.

Except for those who are like unto the Lord, that is.

And in Acts of the Apostles, one can read of the miracles that mortal man did in the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" (Jn 14:12). If the popes really are the successors to the apostles, and they believe in Jesus as King, then where are their mighty works?

Read some Church history. If one were to try to tell all the stories of the mighty works that God has performed through the popes and other Catholics, he'd die of old age before he told the last story. Not just miracles, but stories of the conversions of entire peoples. During the earthly ministry of Jesus, how many nations were converted to the Faith? Through His Church, Jesus has brought whole nations to the Father (something of which no Protestant leader or sect can boast).

Ben m said...

Gregory,

In general, on men being "like unto God," you might want to read what Luther has to say and what Augustine has to say.